Seventh East Press. This theory is now well accepted in academia. I have question on the Book of Abraham. I have to assume hes simply speaking on the basis of snippets of information here and there without context, because this is clearly untrue. But this podcast is filled with way more than you will get in the book or documentary. Your account of why you didnt pursue a doctorate was extremely touching to me as I absolutely admire those that can do the tedium of historical research. The weaker the church gets the better it gets and when it is completely impotent and ceases to exist it will be the best it can ever be. The October 1985 bombings that killed two individuals and severely injured another was initially assumed to be related to a financial business. Definitely one of my top 10 favorite stories on here. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: He knew forger and bomber Mark Hofmann personally. Or even presenting the center view? This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. Also, make sure your second recording matches the first. Before Mark Hoffman was exposed as a forger, was there anything that made you wonder how he managed to make so many great finds? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I think that the LDS churchs main competitor in the marketplace of ideas is not a bigger tent more liberal church, its Agnosticism/atheism. at firesides, etc about some new discovery somewhere that was about to put to rest the concerns about the BOMs historicity. We had some technical difficulties. They even go so far as to claim that Zarahemla was directly across the river from Nauvoo, and that the waters of mormon are Big Springs, MO. I was hoping you would have spoken more about the Book of Mormon and Abraham. I can hardly wait for the rest! Three or four episodes were mentioned by John. Should have added one more minor thing. pigella miraculous ladybug power. He did so to prevent members from apostatizing and becoming fundamentalists. Its a band called The Lower Lights. It all depends on the depth of study one does. Thank you so much for being so open and honest that particular issue. Brent Metcalf, who has been through personal tragedy, triumph and uncertainty can now call himself a national champion. Released: Sep 13, 2014 Format: Podcast episode I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. And how many. [4] Metcalfe had become an ardent supporter of the counterfeited Salamander letter, and hired by Christensen to research the letter. The interview was superb and the insight into this extraordinary life was gifted. In this fascinating conversation Brent details that while working for Church security he was working on scholarly endeavors that he hoped would help contribute to apologitic defenses of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. What an amazing story that Brent was a participant. http://mormonstories.org/brent-metcalfe-hofmann-bombings-excommunication-book-of-mormon/, Scan this QR code to download the app now. I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. Isnt that a dangerous and at least weak and anything goes approach, especially for fanatical groups? My application of Vatican II was specifically intended for the work of Catholic biblical scholars, not Catholicism in toto. He was enthusiastic about scholars allegedly validating his translations through secular methods (e.g., Charles Anthon on the BoMor characters and Michael Chandlers anonymous scholars on the BoAbr papyri). Talk about ADD. Wow John, what an interview. Signature Books. I am waiting patiently for part 3. Arent we to try to gain understanding about life and spirituality? I always enjoyed our discussions years ago about your love for the Indians in your mission and then your experience doing research with their culture and you feelings towards the Book of Mormon. You guys at MS are doing great. Iowa's Brent Metcalf wrestles with Iowa State's Mitch Mueller during their 149 pound match Friday, March 19, 2010 in the quarterfinal round of the 2010 NCAA Division 1 Wrestling Championships at . Pardon me for not commenting on LDS church history, but to be honest Ive read it or heard it all and have moved on. I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. Im not sure why I would have been hesitant to answer the question during the interview since Ive addressed it numerous timesIll have to go back and listen. That was fascinating, thank you. ), systematically undermining Church teachings on the law of chastity and the . but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith.. Charles, I dont think I threw the baby out with the bathwater since my examination of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures resulted in the same intellectual concerns that I had with LDS scriptural extensions. Youre one of the few secular critics of the church that can offer a really long perspective on challenges to Mormonisms truth claims. Also, I appreciate you bringing up ADD. [9] When it became rumored that Metcalfe had lost his belief in the historical claims of the LDS Church, Christensen terminated the project and fired Metcalfe. I just discovered this on my own I bought every single issue of the 7th East Press, and was so disappointed that I missed picking up the final April Fools issue which appeared around campus after the edict banning it from being sold on campus. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Thank You for contributing your experiences with us all I am curious this morning about the possibility of any reports during the time JS says he had his First Vision, that were published in local newspapers, town Crier printings? Let me be equally clear that I dont believe that the BoAbr is an authentic translation of the papyri he possessed. fireside chat september 3, 1939 summary . A question for Brent, What are your thoughts on your research of the book of Abraham? So my question is, what if the effort for the book of Abraham was an attempt by JS and his close friends to deliver an esoteric masterpiece. I hope to move on some day as well. St. Martins Press. Thanks for the interview both of you. In secret, behind closed doors, who were they really betting on? Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. Read More: Where is Terri Christensen Now? I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. "[7] William J. Hamblin responded specifically to an article by Metcalfe. Thanks for the clarification. I clearly remember the frustration in her voice. All this transpired in the 1980s, just around the time Mark Hofmann made his name in the community as a renowned book and document dealer. Why didnt Mr. Metcalfe publish his long-anticipated book disproving the Book of Abraham? And now, as per reports, Brent Metcalfe has been able to construct a healthy and happy life for himself outside of Mormonism, where he can continue to work as an independent scholar and technical editor without any issues or restrictions. OMAHA, Neb. Growing up as a full believer, Brent followed the conventional routine and did the missions, after which he spent a lot of time in the historical archives of the Church, researching documents and working with the security department. Those mind-opening essays impacted my life in positive and powerful ways. See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. Yes, because remember that the paradigm speaking through Mikes words is not just representative of him. Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. As a teenager and still TBM I read some books on the Hoffman Salamander Letter and events surrounding it. Biography [ edit] As a prep wrestler, Metcalf went undefeated with a career record of 228-0, won four consecutive Michigan state titles, and earned six junior national titles. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. What scenario for the books origins have you constructed over your many years of study? Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. Can you offer any insight to this? Our interview continues tonight!!! This was very similar to my experience. I was going to ask the same thing. Why do you think it is that the church is so fearful of discoveries such as the letters by Mark H ? Brent most recently served with the Information Security/Communication Security with the Wyoming Army National Guard as an IT Specialist. Lynn Jacobs was looked at carefully, I believe Brent Metcalf was looked at somewhat. I heard this in contrast to the snippet of Steve Christensens wife on a news show asking about what Steve Christensen was threatening Mark Hofmann with if he didnt produce the McClellin collection where she stated something along the lines of He was going to go to the police and have him arrested. This was an awesome interview. Thanks again Brent for sharing a sketch of your life with us. Ive always felt like crises of faith didnt quite describe my journey but Brent gave me the phrase that perfectly describes my experience. I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. January 15, 2015. I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. Hope all is good with you. I devoutly attended BYU in the mid 70s. I am still cringing from the realizations about the lack of discernment and the deliberate efforts on the part of the GAs. Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. It is important that we be critical thinkers and examine the sources providing information, in the same way we would want to know the credentials of someone dispensing medical advice, car repair advice etc. Priestly and monastic vocations have dropped through the floor, sexual abuse has skyrocketed (its not just that it was always happening but was exposed recently, it is pretty clear that sex abuse itself has gone way up post Vatican II), church attendance is way down, retention rates among youth have plummeted- one could go on. The gift of your ADHD shines. Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) But are there any podcasts that go deeper in to Gnostics, esoteric teachings, metaphysics, etc. In episode #276 of The Jimmy Rex Show, we sit down with a key role in Netflix Documentary Murder Among The Mormons, Brent Metcalfe.Visit and Listen to more. Follow @BHMetcalf. Examples would be projects at the Serpent Mounds in Ohio, linguists studying things like Native Americans singing in a language that seemed close to Hebrew,archaeological digs in latin America that were obviously BOM related, etc. That said, I have to wonder what planet hes living on when he says that Catholicism has been reinvigorated in the post Vatican II era. Brent, thanks so much for sharing your tender moments as well. During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. When you described Hoffmans futile attempts to delay the inevitable meeting where his house of cards would come tumbling down I couldnt help but compare it to the decades-long quest among some of the church leadership to keep the brand pure by weeding out doubters. I remember how the church/BYU was trying to treat this as a non-issue. Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. What historical issues does he think are most worthy of exploration, and how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources? I am so grateful I stumbled across them along with D. Michael Quinns books wow now 20 years ago. Some suggest that energy-conservation constraints favored our thoughts sliding along low-resistance neural ruts that include simple feel-good narratives. Post-Vatican II a renaissance of sorts occurred in scriptural exegesis (for example, scholars no longer felt compelled to affirm the priority of Matthew and they began reassessing the synoptic gospels and John more critically). [4] His supervisor removed the probation, but on April 8 Metcalfe's employment was terminated. How did you encourage this masterpiece which, in my opinion, decimates the churchs past claims on the BofA? All it is is a continuation of the pain, Brent further added. But being new to the church and so unacquainted with church matters and such things I was not much help. Do as I say and not as I do. This was something I surmised most of my adult life. This is what led me here! He remains an enigma. According to Metcalfe, he was questioned by LDS Church authorities about his writing for the 7EP and Sunstone was "forced to resign" from his job in April 1983. "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." So glad Brent. Sorry for my language, Im not a native English speaker and there is a limit to what I can express in English. Now that the new Netflix documentary Murder Among the Mormons has come out, it also validates the important witness that Brent was in this event. I just shook my head to hear the tale of the magisterium giving you the boot, Brent. Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! My life has been enriched by theinquiries those books catalyzed. Excellent question. So sorry for the delay!!!! The insight into the many corners of Mormonism important to us here was delicious. I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. Has been quite a while since you had a podcast that wasnt left of center. SALT LAKE CITY Egyptologist Ed Ashment sympathizes with Washington anthropologist for now has escaped excommunication from the LDS Church. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. It would have helped me a lot to know I was not alone. Just curious if there is a link that has information about what they discovered and why they were ex'd or disparaged. Did any of these projects or research ever prove anything? Will there be more? Thank you as well for your research, especially your work on New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. And it leaves this distrust in LDS leaders hanging with the viewer. I have heard that Mac Christianson financed the mission of one of Hofmanns sons. Or if you have any thoughts on this John? Doxey denied asking about Metcalfe. An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. Im was left kind of hot but dry after hoping to hear about his drama with the church and its leaders.any chance of allowing closure for me here? We were both greenies at the same time. Wrestling for coach Roy Hall at Davison High School in Michigan, Metcalf finished as arguably the #1 overall recruit with a career record of 228-0 with . Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. Do you attend church anyplace else? I did enjoy the balance that your podcast once stood for; miss the balance. As someone told him, You didnt have a crisis of faith but a Failure of Faith. Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? I appreciate the details of Brents experience. What was most poignant to me was Brents description of his failure of faith. Brent did Jerald make an official overture to church leadership regarding Hofmann being a fraud? This is the part Im most interested in: how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources?. It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. I would love to hear more about what unfolded after Hoffman, including how you came to be excommunicated, if you care to share that. Thanks again Brent, no wonder you have had the experience you have shared with your faith about God. Hi Brent, Thank you for your insights and open heart. In it, Metcalfe himself wrote an essay that was the first to advance the Mosiah priority theory, or that Joseph Smith began dictating the Book of Mormon from the Book of Mosiah. 1. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. This unleashed a veritable deluge of Catholic contributions to modern biblical scholarship. Im curious who is singing Lead Kindly Light in this its beautiful. On the term translation, JS promoted his ancient texts as translations in the traditional sense. Metcalfe subsequently resigned from the Seventh East Press and told Sunstone that he would no longer write for them. After all, we are human! He was basically threatening his entire existence. (paraphrased and likely not the actual quote from Murder Among the Mormons, Netflix documentary). You seem to be back on your game of simply inviting your guests to tell their stories. "BoMor" is a contraction preferred by Brent Metcalfe, who edited the book in which this paper appeared, and who likewise does not believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon -- Metcalfe was exxed I think sometime after the infamous September Six. The time has come to really dig in and discover our true human beginnings without religious bias. Not everyone who doubted the authenticity of Hofmanns forgeries did so for valid and sound reasons. this was fascinating, and I havent got to part 2 yet! All rights reserved. The failure of faith concept was very interesting, and I can only say but for the grace of God. Im glad you found some of my remarks useful and thanks for the kind comments. Brent_Metcalfe 7 yr. ago To clarify 4blockhead's list. I still remember the demo you and your friends gave in the Rec Hall for Mutual. I am very excited to announce that I will soon be interviewing Brent Metcalfe. If God will ultimately judge us all, why are mere mortals judging mortals, with the illusion of acting for God? I happened to not do soat least, not yet. Please let us know. I remember one time a BYU professor handed me a long quote to read out loud to the class when I walked in and I almost had the first major public panic attack of my life.