Potentially, this would mean the toe digs in and your shots go right (right handed). The average golfer leaves 65 percent of all approach shots short of the green. Fitters have to find some way to raise their ball flight, because those golfers lack the speed necessary to get the best results from many modern iron heads. Here is a quick list of scenarios that might mean that you need to use a flatter lie angle in your clubs: On the flip side, here is a list of situations that might require you to get a more upright lie angle: The best way to get your loft and lie adjusted is by a professional club fitter. Endycotts weakness so far seems to be the driver, and with his stats suggesting he recovers well top-15 for approaches in recorded events this non-penal track should suit. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. If you're after a driving iron, I would expect you to use it off the tee for the most part. is 2 degrees enough to mess up a club? Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid I always found it a bit strange that I could be 20-40 yards ahead of some friends yet hit the same distance with mid to short irons. Hope this Helps! Equipment counts courtesy of Darrell Survey. All Rights Reserved. And here is why. After this long introduction, Nick keep preaching this gospel. They wont question a fitter who recommends that they switch to a 10.5-degree driver instead of an 8.5 or 9.5, because those are established as acceptable driver lofts. How Long Do They Last, Driving Iron Advantages and Disadvantages, You are using clubs that are too tall for you (easy fix is to change the shaft length), You stand far away from the golf ball when making a swing. The Topgolf Blue Flag Challenge: Can you go 5-for-5 from 155 yards? (I ran into this today.) It is common for a golfer with a swing speed of 70-to-80 mph or less to hit the ball with a lower trajectory than what is considered ideal. This is a list of all clubheads that clubmakers are not allowed to bend. Its like that distance is just not filled. When I was fitted for my 714 AP-2's it was the Titleist fitter who suggested we go 1 degree strong, but it take very little divot. 716 MB'S It sorts my gapping out perfectly as a result. There you can see exactly what it takes to be an average amateur golfer. Callaway MD 3 48 bent to 50 KBS 610 S+ Played a mp30 2i for most of the year as a gap from my 3i to my 3 wood. I have a 2 iron bent 2 strong to 16. Nick so, how much difference can CoG location make to the optimum loft? If the customer cant get the 4 iron in the air, pull that too and give them a hybrid that will get in the air. On a driver? DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM. So what makes 15-16 and 6000 RPM ideal? The fact remains that only stronger, faster swings can support lower lofts. Thankfully gone are the days of everyone demanding s300 S or X when they dont have the swing speed to support them. If you bend lie, you will effect swingweight. The 2-degree limit is only recommended when changing the lofts on irons due to the potential effect such bends will have on the sole angle of the club. I draw the ball naturally so I dont want too much offset on the clubs, I think it will be easier if I just go and get some wedges to sort out the gapping issue. Titleist does recommend no more than +/- 2 degrees from factory and you should be ok. Any more and there is a risk of the stress cracks in the hosel area (primarily cosmetic). GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, Tuesday at 04:47 PM, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, By All rights reserved. Please contact Patrick Gallagher at 800-437-1314 or email patrick@mitchellgolf.com. So if you have the time, watch this cool video that I really like explaining how important lie angle is for your golf game: Having and knowing the correct lie angle of your clubs will be a game changer, I promise! The industry is run by marketing divisions, who are responsible for stronger lofted irons, in the mistaken belief that lower loft equals more distance. The palms should be aligned, that is so that the two Vs formed by your thumb and forefinger should point in the same direction, whether a bit weak or strong from the neutral position. Ping G410 Plus Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited Custom Edel E-3 Putter. Where Can You Get Your Lie Angle Adjusted, Should You Use Heavier Shafts in Wedges? As a lifelong golfer, a student of the game and having made my living in the golf equipment industry for 40-plus years, I have made it a study to observe golfers of all skill levels as they try to figure out this crazy and very difficult game. OP, which is it you are asking about.. making a club 2* stronger or increasing loft? Driver: Charles Kelley whats in the bag accurate as of the Pebble Beach Pro-Am. The club only has .5 degrees of bounce as it is. To do this I will need to bend the 6 iron - PW 1 degree stronger. I realize this can be affected by angle of attack, swing speed, iron/shaft design, and ball design. Sure. If your Ball Speed was higher than that, say up to 125, which is a few MPH slower than PGA Tour average, you would want spin to stay within 200-300 RPMs higher, and Launch Angle to come down to about 14*. Contact Us Even if you want to say a weakened 4 iron is longer in length than a 5 iron of the same loft and therefore goes farther, your gaps in your set will still be equally proportionate. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. Pros and cons? Since loft and bounce is connected, and cant be split no matter what we do. More photos from the event here. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. The average golfer hits a 7-iron to around 30 yards from the pin. What bouncedoes is keep the leading edge from digging into the ground. Guess I dont get it. TM TPx. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. The bounce angle will also change when making the clubs stronger or weaker. Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X, In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. The concern is that all the fitting carts only have 6 irons and with the gaping on the 3, 4 and 5 irons lonely being 3* I am concerned on irons would react to my adjustments. Maybe manufacturers will take note (I doubt it, but keep trying. - Chick Evans, Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons, Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper, I will add a little to what was posted above. Your previous content has been restored. 00bolt, May 18, 2017 in WRX Club Techs. Needless to say, some people need more bounce than others; pickers don't need much bounce but diggers do. Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights, Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Why knowing the different variations in epoxy matter Here How to create excitement before they take the first What you can expect with a Mitchell Golf Angle Mitchell Golf Equipment Company It would increase if you added loft. This is a dumb question but were you fit for them? Thanks everybody for the help! I would advise you to not try it yourself unless you have experience in doing so professionally. I am wanting to bend my 5-PW one degree stronger and my 4 irontwo degrees stronger to fit better with my wedges and hybrid golf club. In the last six years, Tony Finau and Viktor Hovland both broke their maiden here, whilst after a period of personal tragedy, multiple winner, Branden Grace, bounced back to form. And here is why. PING Forged wedges i dont need that. Editors note: This article is in collaboration with Shot Scope. Todays golf ball travels farther than ever before and I dont see any need to jack up the short iron lofts. The difference after they were set to factory lofts and lie for my swing was amazing! If you're a digger already, could make for deeper digging! If the club has an abundance of bounce and/or a rounded leading edge, reducing bounce by 2* might not matter. Not sure about the AP2s. I'm not so much of a digger with long irons, and I thought about getting my rogue 5i bent a degree stronger and not carry a 4. Titleist 620 MB 5-9 Oban CT 125 Due to how DeChambeau delivers the club, his 4-iron has a stated loft of 16 degrees; the stock Ping i230 comes in at 22.5 degrees. Ping G410 LST 3 Wood Oban Tour Prototype V430 This puts a 5 iron at 60* and that is way too flat for most people. Most people won't hit a 2 iron off the fairway though, so they probably won't take a divot at all As far as bounce goes, do you really think a club going 100 mph is going to be affected by 2 less of bounce? The Ever Changing Bag! Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. sorry, didnt mean increase loft. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! As long as the spin rate is acceptable, the new irons, because of their lower center of gravity, are going to produce more speed off the face (due to the lower loft and lower COG) and more distance. TaylorMade M1 15* Tensei CK Pro White 80X or Espana. So, it is my contention that conditions on the course often vary much more than changing the dynamics of a club by a degree or two. Well driving iron to be exact. You cannot paste images directly. Is that ok? So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. Yes, the T200 can be bent 2 degrees flat and beyond 2 degrees upright Titleist manufactures heads 2 degrees upright which can be bent up to a further 2 degrees i.e up to 4 degrees from standard Please sign in to comment TUser January 21, 2020 at 08:09 AM Along the same lines, I got my new T200 irons late last year. Approach play is the area of the game that leaves a lot to be desired amongst all levels of amateur golfers. In the five starts mentioned above, the St. Simons resident has some impressive first round finishes. Novak has finished 11th after the first round in Hawaii, fifth at Torrey Pines and in the top-30 at Pebble Beach and at the Honda. Still have questions? I think that makes a difference. Why would you weaken the lofts of every club and increase the bounce angle by a proportionate amount if you could just get rid of the 3 iron and add a gap wedge? The G30 is a high-launching game improvement design. As club fitters, you have to find the balance between measurable results and what the customer THINKS is happening. Humans think theyre logical but when it comes down to it (when the wallet hits the counter), they are controlled by feelings, who they wish they could play like and what company has qualities that match their identity. I was a little worried I might notice the offset or have trouble with hitting them fat, but they look perfect and play like they should. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! Ultimately, your answer is yes, you can do this. Feb 3, 2013. It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. MyGolfSpy Forum Virtual Golf Tournaments, Forum Featured:Community Map & Course Reviews, By I am not sure exactly what you are asking with the final 2 questions, are you asking should the 5 and 7 iron have the same launch conditions as the 6 iron, or would there be any issues if your 5 iron or the 7 iron launched like the ideal conditions for the 6 iron? If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. From my observation of thousands of golfers of all skill levels, far too many are deficient in the fundamentals, starting with the grip, and then to the set-up and only then to the swing motion. Show Your True Colors With Mitchell Golfs Custom Color Program. The new era of stronger lofts is all about how far to hit 7 iron vs how close to hit 7 iron and more accurate. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. Ok thats good to know, the longest iron I carry in the bag is a 6 iron so it wont make that much of a difference then in the long irons. AP2 irons are forged and can be bent with no problem, BUT I would recommend taking them to someone who does this for a living. I'm curious what effect bending the irons 1 or 2 degrees strong would have on the irons playability. Thank you for such an eye opening article. Still, someone has to win, and, with such dead wood, punters might smile at this opportunity to nab the winner of an event returning to its status as an opposite event expect LIV to make an offer in 2024. GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, Tuesday at 04:47 PM, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, By 10.5 set at small - You won't notice it. That's what I did with my 4i: took out the 95 gram KBS shaft and replaced it with a 75-gram SteelFiber 780 HLS hybrid shaft. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. When you get 2* gaps on the long end there is almost no difference between clubs. The lightweight speed designs dont seem to help the everyday golfer from the examples I see out on the course. Distance is fine, but I have an overly high flight in the wind. When you make the club loft stronger you decrease loft, when you make it weaker you increase the loft. I am glad you mentioned shaft length, static lengths for GI clubs, how it impacts flight, etc. Lofts don't always come in 4-degree increments. Now I learned to shape the flight high and low at any given moment. This feels like an anyone week the back-nine on Sunday could be fun. Changing the loft on clubs can really screw with the visual look of them at address and change the playing characteristics. After the back-to-back top-25s, he was a sneaky play at a long price for the Honda, but was never comfortable, withdrawing during the event with sinus issues. Titleist U500 3 & 4 Oban Kiyoshi Purple Tour Reserve Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Titleist AP3 3 iron 2 degrees strong AMT black stiff shaft at the best online prices at eBay! All data in this article is gathered from Shot Scopes database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique PRO LX+ laser rangefinder. Barring physical limitations, anyone can learn to hold the club properly, and you can practice it anywhere from the sofa in front of your TV to your office while on a call. Nick is a Certified Performance Club Fitter at Carl's Golfland in Bloomfield Hills, Mich. Generally bending lofts on irons unless you are tweaking them to even out a gap. Privacy Policy March 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM If you think about it, a flatter lie would be toe down for your swing. Thats basically what companies are doing anyway. Well this article outlines a variety of statistics which will help you pinpoint which areas of the game you are above or below average. It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther, and this is understandable. When you start messing around with the hozzels and stress on clubs you need to know what you are doing. What affect would bending an iron 2 degrees stronger have? Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. My advice would be to start by making sure the lofts are set to manufacturers specs. ENTER NOW! Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. There was only an added 2 yards with the stronger lofts of trackman. database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique. But the end result for an iron fitting is the same: I want the customer to leave with a set of irons that produce the best possible launch conditions for them. Taylor Made Stealth 10.5 Aldila Ascent Red R flex, Wilson D7 forged 5-GW- Mamiya recoil 460 R flex, Titleist Pro VIxoptic yellow with revkev stamped on them. In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. I know that for every degree strong I bend it, it will take a degree off the bounce. Reduce the loft & you reduce the bounce which, on the longer clubs, is quite small anyway. A flat lie angle is simply when the heel of the golf club is bent so it is higher than the toe. The drop off in make percentage from 3-6 feet and 6-9 feet is huge. I will only add that I don't see what the benefit would be to strengthening loft. Never go more than 2 degrees when making adjustments. High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. Balls: Chrome Soft, Kirkland Signature 3pc, Srixon Q Star Tour, Grip preference: various GripMaster leather options. on tight fairways. Custom Edel E-3 Putter, More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. That said, people will usually launch clubs higher with a longer shaft length as well, (mechanical advantage/physics) so again, it kind of goes hand in hand with the stronger lofts. Will bending irons 2 degrees strong promote more of a draw ball flight? Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. The fitter can then analyze a golfers swing pattern and adjust the lie angle accordingly. I have plenty of X-flex swing speed and don't need the high launch (that just kills me in headwinds), but like the forgiveness on mishits. Club Repair Seminar shows golfers the importance of checking the specs.. It will reduce the bounce of the club, but the actual effect will depend on your swing path. You cannot paste images directly. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Typical launch angle would improve from 13-14* to 17-18*. A wind-affected island track that offers rewards for aggression. On the short end, as the pitching wedge loft gets stronger you end up with wider gaps in the scoring clubs. Using a club bending machine to change the angle on a golf club is among the fastest ways to improve a players ball flight. You must log in or register to reply here. You don't say what club it is, but Rev said it sounds like a long iron and I agree. Each player is different and because of this each iron plays different for each player. Since such a precise hit is needed to take advantage of the lower loft, the average distance each club hits the ball tends to converge at lower lofts for less-skilled players. Upload or insert images from URL. Paste as plain text instead, of distance, and more playable iron trajectories. Now if you take some of the modern GI irons with the thick sole and rounded leading edge (Infiniti brand Assure comes to mind) you can de loft or strong loft it 3 or 4 degrees with no problem at all. 716 MB'S. Your link has been automatically embedded. In fact, a sound, fundamental hold on the club is the first step in setting up for a technically sound golf swing. Lower lofts will travel a bit farther and a bit lower, higher lofts will travel a bit less and fly a bit higher. It is a combination of those factors to get consistent results. Hes happy to answer any of your questions! Adjusting 2 degrees strong will kill the bounce of your irons. 16,822. Titleist Vokey 47* Oban CT 125, 51*, 55*, and 59* Shimada Tour Wedge Black So to get the most performance out of each iron, for these low ball hitters, we need to add loft. Display as a link instead, The average golfer hits 48 percent of fairways. I am a good long iron player and prefer them over fairway woods and especially hybrids. Chamblee takes on Tiger: Brandel, meet Bayless, Tweets of the week: Lizards, grammar police, bad greens, worse sunglasses. VokeySM6 Raw- 50F, Scotty Cameron X5R Flow Neck Torched Finish. If my hands are 2" farther back or forward at impact that is + or - 3*. I reckon for every 1 degree off it takes about 250 off the spin. Clubs are mass-produced with certain manufacturing variances in every factory. But bending an iron weak is not as well understood by many golfers, so they are more hesitant. But they will still land on the green as soft as an older set of irons (if not softer). would 2 degrees be too much and change the club's characteristics too much? A typical #6 iron on the Tour is 31* on loft but Dynamic loft is average only 20.2 You hit the golf ball off of the heel of the club often causing the golf ball to hook or pull, You are playing clubs too short for you (again. That is why getting the numbers is so important. You dont need to bend the clubs. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW Good luck! Uneven lies can vary more than an inch, and based on club geometry that is 1.6* right there, and I can't say I had much effect on the playability of the club. I am 2 handicap, playing Scottish Links golf, smooth tempo, 80-90mph, pretty straight flight, shallow divot. JavaScript is disabled. I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. The 2 that were out the most went from 'avoided' clubs to 'favourites'! Since clubs are bent with iron bars by applying pressure on. All bending machines are not accurate in their readings. If anything I am a digger in the golf swing. Even the most skilled repair professionals can occasionally break a club. Titleist does recommend no more than +/- 2 degrees from factory and you should be ok. Any more and there is a risk of the stress cracks in the hosel area (primarily cosmetic). pic.twitter.com/dNhfPEcR4F https://t.co/Talvwe7Kng. You get to replace the 4 iron thats gone with something you can get in the air. Featured Section: The sole on that thing is tiny compared to any driving iron and I still had no trouble hitting it off the deck. If the club has an abundance of bounce and/or a rounded leading edge, reducing bounce by 2* might not matter. I have to explain that the design allows the iron to have a stronger loft. The JPX-825 Pro's are all 1 degree stronger than the MP-H5's. So, I was thinking that I would have the new iron bent one degree strong so that it fits with the rest of my set. How accurate are the loft and lie readings of clubs straight from the manufacturer? About time someone who knows what theyre talking about said what the the real deal is with loft and modern clubs. With your height you obviously need to be fit properly. Feel free to browse around and see if anything catches your eye! In a typical golf set, loft increases as shaft length decreases. A lot of mixing and matching I do know a typical modern club the PW has the loft of like an older blade 8 iron. Taylor Made tour issue M2 T3 Ozik Matrix 8M3 X most amateurs like to hit the long ball not the low score. But loft is a much more important factor in fitting. I would never ever think of doing this on my own. I haven't built them yet, i was wondering if the results are still working out a year or so later? That means someone who has a ballflight thats too low, he delivers the head with less loft than needed, and by that less than the design of the head is meant to be played with, so he cant go wrong by tweaking lofts weaker. If you're a true picker, wont make you a digger. More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. It has been working really well for me. More ball speed helps them keep the ball in the air longer, which raises their maximum height. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. I do not find these to dig at all. Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34" -or- Rife Bimini, 34" Usually weak, but occasionally strong, and if done intelligently where you don't hurt the clubs playability it's no big deal. Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth .