Quite surprisingly for most homeowners, the biggest problem with this type of recirculation pump is getting cold water. Here are four problems with these pump systems that you should be aware of. When building a house, its smart to think about hot water recirculation as well. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? Think hot water loops returning to your boiler to get reheated (to stay hot) Think LOOPS!! Foreign materials like small pebbles may get into the recirculation pump. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Make sure there are no loose connections. There is a circulator pump, but it still takes a long time for hot water to reach the upstairs bathrooms. To create an energy-efficient full recirculation system, your pump has to come with these two efficiency optimizing parts. The error code E441 informs about the open thermistor or short circuit problem. $257.16. = heat loss from the circulation system [kW] Contents show The electric recirculation pump uses this other pipe to pump the hot water back into the boiler or water heater. Where does the circulation return line tie in, and where is this in relation to the Naviien unit, other fixtures, and appliances in the home? Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 Change the thermistor if needed. Make sure the electrical cord is grounded. Using a corrosion-free flow sensor made of stainless steel is a better option. You certainly dont want that, do you? The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. You can adjust the temperature while the display is flashing. Costs associated with hot water circulation pumps (parts + installation + DIY savings). You need a check valve on the cold inlet 3/4 pipe also from the looks of the picture, you do not have a true designated recirculation line from your furnace fixture. Is there a proper earth ground point in this switch box? This happens when you have a huge heater and lower gas output. He says both the master bath and the kitchen. Brand: Navien. In large systems, however, it may be advantageous to use controlled pumps to enable adjustment of the flow when starting up the system and to be able to apply temperature control. When you operated the hot water tap the last time you needed it, the water shuts off as soon as you turn off the tap. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? air), Sensible Heat (BTU/hr) = 1.1 x CFM x t (std. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. It does save you water but it also costs you a bit of electricity. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Now you have your socket, turn it off/on whenever you want! However, that shouldnt happen if you have turned the pump off. This serves two functions: You save water. Open the service port on the host side and the isolation valve on the cold side, pushing water through the system. First, open and close the pressure relief valve, which is located near the units outlet. Weve tried to include every concern you might have regarding turning off the water recirculating pump. Check to see if the water valves are open. But, yes, I understand why it seems feasible for the sediment to eventually enter the water flow and cause the change in taste of water. Though we share resources, information, and educational guide on plumbing & DIY projects, the content here is not a substitute for professional guidance. The user manual for these devices (of which I own two) provides a pretty good plumbing diagram for proper install. [Fix It Easily], Ball Valve Handle Broke Off [Step By Step Solutions]. Hathaspace Smart True HEPA Air Purifier Reviews, 4+6 Best Whole-House Dehumidifiers (Ducted, Portable), 4 Quietest Dehumidifiers (Best Bedroom Dehumidifiers): 52.1 dB Or Lower, energy-efficient way of getting hot water. Navien NPE-240 A Recirculation Linewww.amazon.com/shop/miheatingguyMilwaukee 2131-20 M18 ROCKET Dual Power Tower Lighthttps://amzn.to/3pe2hYHMilwaukee M12 Surge Hydraulic Driver Kit #2551-22https://amzn.to/3n5offbMakita E-01563 Impact XPS 3 Pc. The error code E736 informs about the issue in cascade communication, and error code E740 indicates that the outdoor temperature sensor is not working correctly. I don't hear the heater "fire up" right away when the tap is opened and can't tell if the recirculation pump is running. Locate the power button and press it to turn on the heater. I installed this system a few days ago and I've been trying to trouble shoot the noise that's coming from the re-circulation pump. If the external recirc is set up without this it will just run, defeating the purpose of hot water on demand. I recently had a 240A2 installed. I connected the Hot Button control board to the main PCB per the instructions. sounds like you need a different plumber to assess your situation. Can you turn it off in a tankless that has it built in? Not really. I noticed my apartment building installed one and at that time the whole water pressure was low. We have to keep the valve on and slowly hot water comes out. Below are different Navien water heater error codes and their solutions; Navien error code 003 how to fix indicates that there is an ignition failure in your unit. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? If your system is re-circed as close as possible to the fixtures (ask yourself do I have two hot waterlines for each fixture?) 30000466A Navien Circulation Pump NAPU9GLPCT33 . However, I have envious of those who have the NPE with the hot button and wifi link. The issue is most likely, the flow sensor inside the unit is not spinning correctly. Then re-insert the filter and screw it back in place. Only 19 left in stock - order soon. For more information, please see our You just have to set the timer as you use it. Ensure the recirculation pump was installed correctly. Not sure I am understanding. With the NRCR you can set your own schedule with a remote accessory and tailor the integrated pump to your lifestyle or scheduled needs. Sold by HVAC Pros and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. Ensure the main gas supply valve is open. To select a recirculation mode, you must set the DIP switches on the front panel, and set the position of the 2-way valve inside the water heater. If yes, clean them. Yes, you can turn it off by yourself. I have a new Noritz tankless water heater that includes an AquaMotion recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. He has a good standing reputation for superior skills in heating, air conditioning, hot water tanks, and indoor air quality systems. The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. The leading causes of the intermittent flame; You can fix these issues by maintaining and cleaning the heater. Where does this (supposedly) Gibson quote come from? Thanks for confirming and letting me know about the potential damage to the circulating pump as that hadn't occurred to me. You can turn it off during work hours, over the night, when you go on vacations, and so on. It looks like you're using an ad blocker. If we take that the average price of water is $0.18/gallon (according to Statistas 2019 study), heres how much you can save on water with a recirculation pump: Water Savings = 2,920 gallons/year * $0.18/gallon = $525.60/year. Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? Plug n play (after removing front panel to access the plug). Turn off the device and examine the APSs condition. Also the unit needs to be set to utilize the recirculation feature. You need a crossover valve installed under one of your faucets that is far away from the water heater (there are a few different styles but they all have four connections and get installed under a faucet). (+ Calculator), 5 Best Air Purifiers For Allergies In 2023 (+ H13 Medical-Grade HEPA Filters), Is A Tankless Water Heater Worth It? To reduce that time significantly (and stop needlessly wasting water), we can install hot water recirculating pump. It has a timer that turns on the pump at regular intervals, mostly during peak usage times. With two pipes, you can create a loop between the water heater and faucets. This requires the installation of an additional water pipe. Check if there is any gas leakage before turning it on after a couple of days. This comprehensive guide helps to make the operation and repair of your heater easier. If any of them are loose or disconnected, your circulator pump won't work. Did you mount the contact switch next to the Navien? I bought the remote PB you referenced above and the specs on it say it uses 12 VDC, but I couldn't find anywhere whether the 12 V supplied by the Navien board is either AC or DC. Maintaining Your Central Heating Pump | Living by HomeServe It means that there is an issue with the air pressure sensor. 2 Types Of Hot Water Recirculation Pumps Used In Homes, Type 2: Recirculating Home Pump Comfort System, Advantages And Disadvantages Of Hot Water Recirculation Pumps, How Much Do Hot Water Circulation Pumps Cost + Installation Cost + Running Cost? Unplug the power to your Navien water heater. This gives users hot water when they need it, saving water and money. The plumber said that he tied in both in the master bathroom and the kitchen but Ill crawl under the house to validate this. The disadvantages of recirculating pumps include waiting for cold waters (its a less-known disadvantage), having to install additional wiring, and so on. Just like everything with these three characteristics, it is time-consuming and challenging. Is a Hot Water Recirculating Pump Worth It? 10 Pros and Cons - Your H2Home On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. Then check to see if the plumbing lines and the heaters water lines are clogged. 2. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? link to How to Connect a Generator to Your Tiny House Without a Transfer Switch, Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Insinkerator Hot Water Dispenser How-to & Troubleshooting Guide. some homes require multiple recirc lines in order for all fixture group to benefit. The only place that quickly gets hot (and really hot) is the guest bath which happens to be right next to the water heater. I have an NR240A for about 10 years now. Do the plumbers explanations make any sense at all or does it sound like BS? Calculator + Chart (Natural Gas), Average Gas Bill For 1-Bedroom Apartment: State-By-State Cost Analysis, Average Electricity Bill For 4 Person Household (Survey Analysis), How Many kWh Per Day Is Normal? It shows that the heating return thermistor is not working correctly. Do not advertise or try to compare pricing. So you'll find the same info whether you're looking for the Navien 240A manual, the Navien NPE-240S manual, Navien NPE-180A manual or similar. The upfront cost is a major deterrent when deciding if it makes sense to install a circulation pump or not. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. IF it does, could it be controlled remotely? Some sort of noise out of your Navien recirculation pump is normal. How Much Does 500 Watts Cost Per Hour? Start by turning off the service valves and removing the hoses. Also, check the filters to see if they are clean. Lets start by looking at how these pumps actually work: If it takes forever for the hot water to start running, it usually means that there is a long pipe between a boiler (or a hot water heater or tankless water heater) and the faucet. We have a standard gas hot water heater with a circulating pump. if your water heater has 5 connections ( CW in; HW out; Recirc in; condensate ; gas) then the recirculation is coming backing to the water heater. It depends on how the recirculation pump is installed, and some other factors, plumbers usually know this stuff pretty well. But in my case its significant amount of time and it only really gets hot if I fully open the hot water at that faucet otherwise it is luke warm. Go along the steps described below to set the recirculation settings. When we dont have to use it, why keep it on? Page 12 Turn off and discontinue use of the water heater if any of the vent . This depends on how long you leave it on and how often you use it. So, there is such a thing. I got a Navien NPE 240A2 installed in my home with dedicated recirculating line (hopefully I got the lingo right!) After using this amount of time, hardware gets old and starts to malfunction. W2 Wire Thermostat Wiring (2nd Stage), Thermostat Wire Color Codes For 3-8 Wire Thermostats (Color-By-Color), How Many Therms Of Gas Per Month Is Normal? Many systems turn on and off automatically to keep the water within a specified temperature range. The exhaust is overheating. It's unfortunate he's not around to explain all this to you. Wash it under the water with a brush, let it dry, and then place it back. When you are installing water system stuff, a lot of things can cause low pressure. Manage Settings That means that the cold water is not actually cold; it will usually be slightly warm (at room temperature). Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. There are no error codes showing. Therefore, I can't drain the system. Should I keep my 5-year-old electric tank heater as a storage unit if I am about to install a new gas tankless heater? But, making sure youre doing it the right way is important. Press the M (menu) button on the front panel and choose the 1. Like with most things, a lot of noise coming from your hot water recirculation pump isn't a good sign. Advantages and disadvantages of hot water circulation pumps. Parts that will actually be used depend on what kind of hot water recirculation pump you have. If you have come back from a vacation, first turn on the main water valve. Will a Water-Saving Recirculation Pump Save Me Money? - Treehugger To install a full recirculating pump system, you need to consult with a plumber because you will need an extra pipe. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot, Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, Easy DIY Media Cabinet Build with Basic Tools, From Cast-Iron to Stainless-Steel: How to Replace Your Kitchen Sink, While theres no water in the pump, do not turn on the recirculating pump. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. In fact, with a tankless water heater, you face double trouble (thats why youre not getting hot water fast): Because we need to wait longer for hot water in the case of tankless water heaters vs. traditional water heaters, it makes sense to minimize that time in tankless heaters even more. The timer has control over when the pump is working continuously. Tankless Water Heater Breaker Size Calculator: What Size Breaker? Air in the line: If there has been a power outage or air has gotten into the line for another reason, the pump can make a lot of noise. Purchasing a timer will also fix the problem. When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. Navien tankless water heater recirculation | 2016-04-01 | Plumbing and The heater turns off automatically when the flue pipe surpasses 149 degrees Fahrenheit. Step 1 Remove the plug from the socket on the end of the wire that connects to your circulator pump. Any thoughts on that? Navien NR-210A Manuals | ManualsLib The cost of a separate recirculation pump would fall in the range of $200 and $500, depending on the size required. I used a razor and carefully pried each side of the RM11 open to reach the programming switch. Years of experience in the HVAC field have taught him many lessons, not the least of which is that the value of quality and knowledge far exceeds any promised initial savings. When the heat exchanger starts to crack, it creates a gap that can escape toxic exhaust gasses. The remote control module sits beside this area (I have it floating but I'll put double stick tape and mount it to the interior soon) and the antenna lead drops through a grommet (conveniently already available at the bottom of the unit near the pcb) to the outside. First, place a thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. However, some gas needs to be used to heat water for the pump to circulate; the gas usage for this is pretty much insignificant relative to how much gas we use when powering the instant hot water heater. By installing a hot water circulation pump, you will have a hot shower right away. This on-demand water heater has a lower carbon footprint, is energy efficient, and has a longer lifespan. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. That means that this household wasted 8 gallons of water per day just waiting for hot water. When I hooked hoses to the service pipes, the system still produced a strong, steady flow of water, seeming to not drain. For most existing homeowners, integrating a recirculating home pump comfort system on top of the existing piping makes much more sense: Heres why this is the most popular type of hot water recirculating pump in homes: You use the existing water pipe alone. You must log in or register to reply here. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman to fix the issue. However, the hot water had to travel from your water heater to the faucet for you to use. We always take the pros vs. cons approach because nothing is perfect. We have one faucet in the kitchen that has instant scalding hot water the second you turn it on . Let's hop in! 2. 30000466A Navien Circulation Pump NAPU9GLPCT33 - amazon.com Otherwise, this will cause the shut-off valve to get damaged. We don't tend to provide any plumbing advice or any advice that should come from a certified professional. Water heaters think about water in temperature: If the inlet water temperature is 40F and the guy at the kitchen sink doesnt want his hands to freeze, I need to warm that water up to 55F. Once the tank is thoroughly drained, clean the base of the heater. Navien 30010780B Circulation Pump - amazon.com It is caused by an open or shorted air pressure sensor. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. A place for plumbing advice and help. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after youve turned it off for your safety. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? DC Wire Gauge Calculator: What Gauge Wire (12V, 24V, 48V)? Depending on the age of your Navien NPE-A model, he did you a favor. In existing homes, adding an additional pipe for a full recirculating pump system is often too expensive; its just dont worth it, according to HVAC specialists. I am guessing that he only returned the HOT line, hence the delayed time in "INSTANT HOT", as the Naviens are sold as well as there 96% efficiency!! If your system displays this code, you need to confirm the water pressure is within good ranges. I am having issues with it ever since: water to certain places in my house seems to just stay warm (kitchen sink and master bathroom) unless I fully open the faucet all the way on hotand then still I have to wait a minute plus for the water to heat up. Once again, there are a few different things it could be. The large valves should be in the off position, whereas the service valves should be in the on place. The cold water inlet one thermistor is defective. This is because the sensors are corroded over time which causes them to shut the heater down. Turn off the power before removing the filter. Press either the Up and the Down button to switch between any of these recirculation settings: Its not exactly normal. NAVIEN NPE-180A SERVICE MANUAL Pdf Download | ManualsLib Why isn't my Navien tankless water heater performing as it should? The estimated annual operating cost of the Navien tankless water heater, based on the yearly estimated residential use per US Energy Department test criteria, is $191. How Does A Hot Water Recirculation Pump Work? Thats 2,920 gallons of water per year wasted. . A loose part causing unnecessary vibrations, Vacuum in the water lines causing vibrations, A dirty flow sensor leading to gas flow interference and producing weird noises. Remove the filter from the plastic assembly and clean it with a toothbrush, and clean running water. Locate the reset button on the heaters front control panel. The recirculation pump saves on water bills by reducing the time to get hot water.