How does it open? Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. I know the bottom image. Bertrand Antoine & Fils One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. Berleur Guillaume CLEMENT, J. So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? Comblain H. J. Due to the Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Worldwide Logistics for all your products. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . There's no indication of gauge. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Thanks. These firearms Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, Closset Louis - Remy Hubert Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. This will be an on going this location now so you can return often. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. The book Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. L. L. Hepburn percussion combination rifle, .36 cal. Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). Bookmark I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. Bodson N. Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. In addition to The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Behr Jean jacques If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. Bultot Jean Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. Members . Colot I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. Burlet Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. By Alain Daubresse. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Heyday of the Shotgun: The art of the gunmaker at the turn of the last century. No maker's name anywhere? Search. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. Colleye Henri Joseph There are a number of (copy right L.R. The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. Paypal, Order Serial # 58755 S76 This custom made Belgium gun was probably designed for the European market. Pictures would help! Baltus - Wilmotte "Cueruy" could be the maker. The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. This printed After years of looking at and trying thank you. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. Technically the company is owned by Belgium firearms maker FN Herstal. Bertrand Antoine The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. Ancion DD & Fils Mark for optional superior provisional proof. In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. . Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. that we have found on this subject. Bernard Lambert Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. Andr M.J. 4 0 obj Bischop Pierre i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Colette Victor It was mandatory post-1924. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. Baron Emile since 1929 Eibar admission proof for guns with old marks since 1929 Eibar proof used in . Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. Cap Joseph Many thanxPS:.
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