Jesus' word picture of one aspect of the Day of the Lord is gruesome, indeed, but at some point in human history there will be a holocaust of such unimaginable scope and scale that perhaps a third--or more--of the entire population of the world will be decimated (see Revelation 6:7-8 and 9:15-18). wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his The believers that are taken are not to look back (remember Lots wife) to their churches but just leave it all behind. I was pleased to see the CEB use the word "disciple" to refer to the mysterious young man who appears in Mark 14:51-52, after the 12 disciples desert Jesus and run away. And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. Next, Jesus said once again one will be taken and one left. In one case those left are judged and in the other case those left are blessed! treasure bringeth forth evil things. the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the The NKJV translates the Greek word duoas two men in Luke 17:34, but the NASB does not. One will be taken and the other left. His answer clearly reveals that all who were left would be dead and their bodies would be food for the eagles. Genesis 19:9-15 KJV (9) And they said, Stand back. That is, birds of prey visible in the heavens congregate and devour corpses on earth. Any duration. It is expedient that we go away.following Him out. (h) Vid. the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this Revelation 14:10 KJV (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the But the door of our mouths is to remain shut . This is the great judgment/wrath at Christ's Second Coming, when God kills His enemies and instructs scavenger-birds to gather and eat their corpses (Revelation 19:17-21). In other words, they will experience the glory and not the gory! 36 But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of de Lectis Veter. again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a The ones taken were saved and the ones left were the ones destroyed by the flood. First, if we read the three verses leading up to this text, we find this: As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. together; one will be taken and one will be left. Two prophets will be located at Jerusalem and urge the construction of the Temple. Arise, let us go hence.*. Because this Greek word has been used in a judgment passage of . The people "taken" - These are Christians who are tracked down after Christianity is outlawed and arrested. What phrases give people the false idea that there will be a secret rapture? What was the importance of the horns of the altar (Amos 3:14)? "'" Revelation 19:17-18 KJV (17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; Who is being "taken" in Matthew 24:40-41? Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Now when the Lord gave the Disciples this sign in Luke chapter 17 they understood that Jesus was talking about the last days and that some people would suddenly disappear but they didnt know anything about the Rapture and the logical question was asked, Where Lord? i.e. unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be In other words, an equally legitimate interpretation of the disciples' question is that the disciples wanted to know where the events Jesus was telling them about would take place. For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. : Right now the kingdom of God is within the hearts of people, but then--whenever then is--the Kingdom of God will come in spectacular fashion to bring about "the end of the age.". The same statement is found in Matthew 24:28 except that the word "body" is replaced with "carcase". The image is from a painting by: Hieronymus Bosch. For more information on the Goat and Sheep Judgment, please read, When and where does the Goat and Sheep judgment occur? This is also called the Judgment of the Nations. There is no rapture here. This is how it is in the parable of the wheat and tares (Mt 13:24-30, 36-43). (1-2) The danger of stumbling another. It would make sense that those taken will be devoured. The words quoted in Luke 17 come after the Lord had answered the Pharisees question about the timing of the Kingdom of God. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2017%3A20-37&version=NET;NKJV. In Matthew 24, when it speaks about the Tribulation, it states that: wheresoever the carcase (ptoma) is, there will the eagles be gathered together. We must be able to go directly to the Word of God and expound the truth from the Text of Scripture. whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. Who is the second? shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. them, Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered free and bond, both small and great. One of the SIGNS Jesus gave to the nation of Israel that the end of the age has come would be a global disappearance of individuals who would be received to Himself while the rest would be left, put away in judgment. housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it Lu 17:37 G4983 body, flesh; the body of the Church. Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. A lot seems to be happening in a very short scope of time. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. Please. (NIV). *. 0 Was Jesus talking about the rapture or judgment in Luke 17:34-37? Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Comp., moreover, on Matthew 24:40 f. ] which Bengel, in opposition to the context, explains: in this present night, is neither to be interpreted in . The two great signs to Israel will be the sudden, global disappearance of indiviuals which we know to be the Church and the signing of a seven year covenant with Antichrist. Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. Jesus: being symbolised at the dead copse, point of interest, (,,not meaning/saying, He's a dead Copse) Thank you for contributing. So how do we interpret the words of Jesus when He said that in one night there would a global disappearance of individuals from bed, the field and at the mill? In verse 26, Jesus resembled the days of Noah with His second coming: "And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. Eagles go for bodies, vultures go for corpses. It is also agreed that the words were spoken to Jewish disciples BEFORE the Church began on the day of Pentecost. and hath nothing in me.*. The time of Jacobs trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) will have arrived. Christians/Jews that flee to refuge in the wilderness and give up on their comfortable life but are consequently spared. Luke 17:21. mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not Real Questions. rev2023.3.3.43278. But most importantly the word for body is NOT a dead carcase (ptoma) but a living body (soma)! Revelation 19:21 KJV (21) And the remnant were slain with the sword Mark 3:4, Luke 6:9 & Matthew 10:28. Bible Based.We believe in solo-scriptura. with the brightness of his coming: The wicked will be tormented in the presence of the Lamb as we keep His sacrifice when the persecute us. The Greek word duo simply means two two of anything. Again, these fowl in Revelation 19 are the multitude of words of the unbelievers who will not believe in the true sayings of God when the Scriptures are opened up by the Lord to our hearing ears. (49) For I have not spoken of myself; but Luke 17:31 Commentaries: "On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter They are similar but Lukes account took place about a week before the Olivet Discourse. In the same way it would be wrong to say Jesus was not speaking of the Church when He spoke of other sheep which are not of this fold. Those who were taken were those who remained in the city and were taken by the Roman army. This answered prayer was what caused me to doubt Pre-Tribulation Rapture, and then I became convinced its impossible. The word for the bird is generic in both accounts. We are not to return evil for their evil that will come out of their mouths as we leave their company. Im Matthew 24:28 the context is look out for false Christs, they are every where. We are to keep His sacrifice in the presence of their persecutions by not returning evil for their evil. Please see, Welcome and thank you for your contribution. The eagles are the MULTITUDE of the words spoken by the unbelievers as they will persecute those who leave their churches for the Word of Truth when they hear and receive it with joy. There He simply said day that the Son of Man. The term Son of Man is a reference to Himself. I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. I would like to comment on the Lords words in Luke 17:34-37 and Matthew 24:40-41. Regarding Jesus' arrest, why might the gospels differ so much? Luke 17:34-35 (KJV) - I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. This is the correct interpretation of one taken and the other left. destroyed all of them 30 it will be like that on the day that the Son For more information about this event, we must read Matthew 25:31-46. PO Box 4216 They will not be unequally yoked together with the unbelievers in their churches. Alstorph. They all deal with the same subject matter, the coming of His Kingdom, not the rapture. As for the "where question," Jesus' apparently cryptic answer is really quite straightforward. Like in the wheat and the weeds parable. This means that both Luke 17:30-35 and Matthew 24:37-41 are events that will occur after the second coming of Christ. Mark 13, Luke 17:20 - 37 and Matthew 24-25 are the Words of Jesus giving His Olivet Discourse. whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you Thanks for contributing an answer to Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange! This is a picture* of angels that are in the process of transporting from earth newly departed peoples' souls, through the legendary dark tunnel, to the heavenly light in the far distance. This is clearly speaking about the Church which though unrevealed at the time, was future in Gods plan. Revelation 19:17-21. I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. Perhaps it means that the ones taken will be disenfranchised, their goods confiscated and their rights terminated as a "felony". c. 15. p. 90, 91. We must leave their "church"we must depart in this coming time so that the Wicked shall be revealed and their judgment is executed. In addition, the goat nations who receive the mark of the Beast during the Tribulation, will be brought before the throne of Christs glory and be cast into everlasting fire (Matthew 25:31-46). I tell you, in that night there shall be two. lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. My question is, Who are taken, and who are left behind, and how are we to understand Luke 17:37? What does the verse mean? But, we must also "Arise up" and get outjust as Lot was commanded to do. A remnant will survive. Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. the other left. However, I am dissatisfied with the answers given, as they are either "off the wall", or "I don't know-but I think this". It is taken to mean that one day believers will be secretly "raptured" away and the rest will be "left behind." What's the problem here, you ask? mocked unto his sons in law. supper of the great God; (18) That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and ncdu: What's going on with this second size column? Literalising the scripture with a carnal mentality, wud just lead one astray to his own peril. If any man hear His Word and believes (rejecting what one hears and does not receive it) not shall be judged by the Word of God that He has spoken. Luke 17:37 . We are to leave it all behind for His sake and the good news of our salvation that we hear in the Word of Truth spoken to our hearing ears from Heaven above. (36) But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, (10) But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house Brian Bell notes that "this is the last teaching of a long Sabbath day that started in Lk 14:1. Jesus said: And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold (Israel): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one flock (Jew and Gentile in the Church), and one shepherd (Christ the head of the Church) (John 10:16). (14) And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day A very important study that also explains this illustration is, Seven Signs of Christs Second Coming.. AUSTRALIA. Why is this the case? And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. Jesus said other things to the disciples about the Church which they could not understand but which later became quite evident to them. (31) In that day, he which shall be upon the so this is clearly not a case of people being taken up to heaven or anything like that. Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together (Luke17:37). grinding. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? Here is Luke 17:30-33, It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed. Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give an account thereof in the Day of Judgment. Thank you! Thank you for your response! We have 3 groups of people here. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Jesus stresses the Necessity for watchfulness-, to keep ready, Jesus explains. The word for taken in Luke 17:34 is the Greek word paralamban, which means to receive from and is the same Greek word that is used in John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. This seems to refer to Christ taking the church in the event of the rapture rather than some other sort of taken. Recommend reading Luke 17:20-37 for better understanding, the parallel in Matthew below is a slightly different, this is because Jesus repeated many things as he preached from town to town. one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. We must hear the command and ARISE (just like Lot was commanded to "ARISE" and go from Sodom) from the dead body of unbelievers and let us go from here.their churches. Luke 17:33-37 says, "Remember Lot's wife. Some interpret the word taken to mean, taken in judgment at the second coming of Christ but what does the Greek word mean? Luke 17:30-33(NASB). The point is that people were occupied with activities and were not aware or willing to believe Noah, and that will happen to the last generation before Christ returns. Some use Luke 17:34-36 to teach the secret rapture belief but to understand the complete picture of this passage, we need to read the verses before and after. One will be taken and the other left. Luke 17:35 (NASB) Matthew 24:40-41 communicates the same facts. It is the only interpretation that is true to the literal meaning of the words and the Jewish context of the passage. gathered together. Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. (48) He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath It is quite clear that both scriptures are about the same event and that it is related to the warnings of the end of the age and the Lords return. After evoking the Great Tribulation in verse 1, the second verse of the song is a poetic restatement of Luke 17:34 and Matthew 24:40: A man and wife asleep in bed,/ She hears a noise and turns her head he's gone;/ I wish we'd all been ready. I always used to believe that phrase was about a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, but in Jesus context, it means the wicked are taken (die) and the rest are left alive. " (27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed: One will be taken and the other left. 2) The Great Tribulation at Point 3. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. English Standard Version " shall lose his life shall preserve it. by John Dart October 26, 2011 Guest Post Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Considering the context starts several verses earlier, nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' (32) Remember Lot's wife. And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together (Luke 17:34-37). ptma G4430 is coprse, caracass. "Remember Lot's wife. One will be taken the other left (Mt 24:40-41). (31) But that the world may know that I love world. Some understand it to mean that the Son of Man will inevitably appear just as eagles inevitably show up where there is carrion. Their very own words will eat the flesh of those who will (in unbelief) resist what the Spirit says in this coming time in the Day of Judgment. It is true that the parable of the Net catching good and bad fish teaches that the bad fish will be first cast away and the good fish will remain for the kingdom at the coming of the Lord. The message is destruction. " If you se vultures you know where the corpses are. 2) The Great Tribulation at Point 3. But, when asked where are those who are taken go, He cryptically says, "Where the body is, there the eagles will be gathered.". eg. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. For those who believe that Luke 17:34-36 is not speaking of the rapture but of the judgment after Christ's Second Coming and that those taken are the wicked, I must point out a few things and conclude with a determining factor. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? 28 "Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot: they were eating and These two signs will occur at the same time and will send an unmistakable message to 144,000 Jewish men who will instantly turn to Jesus Christ. And Noah and Lot are used as examples of those left behind and surviving destruction; Noah survived the flood but everyone else was destroyed and Lot survived the fiery brimstone but everyone else was destroyed. There will be two women grinding together. [31] [32] [33]IGN deu 8 de 10, dizendo "Atomic Heart uma tentativa altamente imaginativa, inspirada no atompunk, de continuar de onde BioShock parou.." righteousness, and of judgment: (9) Of sin, because they believe not Check your inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription. But Luke 17:35 is much more clear. So, AFTER the Great Tribulation, Jesus will return like lightning to rapture believers and to destroy sinners. gather., 37 "And answering they *said to Him, Where, Lord? And He said to Luke 17:34-35, The Fate of the Raptured Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2014 in Bible Commentary | 1 comment I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. It didnt make sense to me so I compared Luke 17 and Matthew 24, looking for similarities and hoping that would shed light on what Jesus meant. THE RAPTURE, A SECRET UNTIL JESUS CHRIST REVEALED IT TO PAUL Attempting to argue against those who say Jesus never preached about the Rapture, people will take Jesus' words in Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 about individuals being taken away, and make them apply to people being taken to heaven in the Rapture. Luke 17:34 (NIV). I like Joseph's answer, which if no other answers turn in will receive my check. In verses 20-21, of Luke's account, Jesus warns the disciples saying, But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its Here is my translation of Luke 17:22-37. desolation is near. See texts below. When and where does the Goat and Sheep judgment occur? 36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. The Lord shall consume them with the Spirit of His mouth as they will gnash their teeth in rage against what they hear Him saying and will speak all kinds of evil in resistance which will destroy themselves. This was not an answer given in the previous discussion of this question; I basically agree with your conclusion-there is no other way of interpreting 'eagle' except as a bird of prey, consequently, those 'taken' by the eagles are where eagles go to devour their flesh-certainly no picture of anything that looks like heaven. Jesus says to "flee to the mountains" in Matthew 24. If the rapture had occurred, then the dead have already risen because Paul . The one shall be taken; by the Roman soldiers: and the other shall be left; being, by one providence or another preserved; which is mentioned, to show the distinction God will make in his providence, and to encourage believers to trust in it. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, 39 and they Two women shall be grinding together; the one, Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers. He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. You welcome my friend. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Sadly, this verse has been used to support the secret rapture belief. Many will resist what He has to say with a multitude of evil words that will fly out of their mouths into the "air". judge him in the last day. Who is the one taken? one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall Then thereafter, everything said, points to 'features of *rapture, simple. Since those who subscribe to amillennialism don't believe in rapture, how do they interpret Luke 17:30-34. things to come. place; for the LORD will destroy this city. Can you give me the Bible support for the Secret Rapture? The answer begins by understanding that duosimply means two. The word can refer to two men, two women, two children, a mother and a child, or two of anything. This chart shows the flow of events as: 1) The Antichrist at Point 1. It is clear that the "rapture" is for those to be devoured. 35 There will be two women grinding together. He replied, Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.. If we also go away from them, then the Comforter shall come unto us. Commentators have noted that Jesus employed a proverbial saying to reply to his disciples' question, "Where, Lord?" (Luke 17:37a); however, they differ on what the proverb means in this context. Therefore, they are not describing the rapture. Some will hear and believe and come out from among the unbelievers (the dead body) who will not believe in the revealed Word of Truth when they hear it. We must be faithful to the context which is Israel in the last days. We are to leave it all behind (all of their church thoughts and ways) and take nothing of them with us so that we follow the Lord in His footsteps and suffer without the camp by the keeping of His sacrifice as they will persecute us for leaving them. of man is revealed. pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. The Word of God spoken is the sword of Himand all the fowls are the evil multitude of words that the unbelievers will speak in the Day of Judgment and are condemned. for His Son Jesus, "The Messiah" (Matthew 22:1-14 NASB), https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22%3A1-14&version=NET;NKJV, Those abandoned are those who are not spiritually awake, they get consumed in their selfish lifestyle, as did people in Noah's days:" For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark. Who will be devoured? There is no doubt the disciples were referring to the ones taken. I will not talk much with you: **for the prince of this world cometh, : [Pro 30:17 KJV] 17 The eye [that] mocketh at [his] father, and despiseth to obey [his] mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. (33) Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and Thats what modern versions have done but the Greek does not allow it! It will be like the days of Noah and the days of Lot; days of violence and every mans imaginations and thoughts only evil continually! All Rights Reserved.
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